This is my Ork list I am pretty much commited to building. I just want to write this down someplace.
The core:
da l33Tz (530 or 620 points)
1x 13x Lootas
1x 11x Tank Bustas
Nob w/ Bosspole and 'eavy Armour
3x Bomb Squigs
1x 9x or 1x 15x Burna Boyz
1x 3x Mekboy
Big Shootas or Kustom Mega Blastas
2x 25x Shootaboyz
2x Big Shootas
(300 or so points.)
So that is about 900 points. I can go in different directions after this:
Warphead w/ 'Ard Boyz and Rokkit Launchas
Shokk Attack Gun
KFF Burna Mek w/ Deffdred, 2x Looted wagons and Flashgitz
That is the general idea. This stuff costs money, of course. Not to mention time to convert and paint. But I will accumilate Orkz over time. If I want a Transport-Wagon outside of Heavy (for the Tankbustas) I need a squad of Nobz. Cool as normal Nobz are I might actually go with converted Meganobz. I will be picking up ... 2 starter kits and probably a box of Nobz so that gives me 15 Nobz to screw around with. Original plan was 7 Nobz, 7 Flashgitz and 1 Painboy. But we will just see how things go.
I want a Warboss but I do not know what to do with it. I will probably go Biker boss with biker Nobz. I want a shooty Ork list I am more inclined to go Wazdakka with Bikes and Deffkoptas than a Warboss in games less than 2500. I kind of want a Warboss with Big Choppa but the Power Klaw is too good. Basically there is only so many ways to make a Warboss useful imo. Although there is nothing wrong with a Warboss and Nobz in a Trukk for smaller games. Or even marching, in a shooty list.
WAAAAAAAGHHHH!!!!!!!
Monday, February 02, 2009
Sunday, November 09, 2008
Tomb Kings List, for no reason
What I will call the core of the army:
Tomb King (on foot)
Destroyer of Realities
Collar of Shapesh (probably)
Tomb King (mounted)
Spear of Antarhak
Armour of the Ages
Chariot of Fire
// 300
3x Lich Priests
One flying, one mounted and one not. Mounted flanks, the other two go between the Catapults and the Infantry.
// < 500
1x 4x Tomb Swarm
Deep Strikes + Cool
// So that is about 1000
2x Light Cavalry
Note they have OK shooting
2x Screaming Skull Catapult
2x 3x Carrion
// 500
Points are filling up. I really want to take Ushabi. I will probably settle for one squad of Carrion, probably a squad of 4.
If I take Tomb Guard with a Marching Tomb King I will want two or three blocks of Skellys to go with it. With a mounted Tomb King a squad of Chariots is a must (and they might be anyway), as is one squad of 15 Horse.
Anyway there is a wide range to collect, with an emphasis on boniness.
Tomb King (on foot)
Destroyer of Realities
Collar of Shapesh (probably)
Tomb King (mounted)
Spear of Antarhak
Armour of the Ages
Chariot of Fire
// 300
3x Lich Priests
One flying, one mounted and one not. Mounted flanks, the other two go between the Catapults and the Infantry.
// < 500
1x 4x Tomb Swarm
Deep Strikes + Cool
// So that is about 1000
2x Light Cavalry
Note they have OK shooting
2x Screaming Skull Catapult
2x 3x Carrion
// 500
Points are filling up. I really want to take Ushabi. I will probably settle for one squad of Carrion, probably a squad of 4.
If I take Tomb Guard with a Marching Tomb King I will want two or three blocks of Skellys to go with it. With a mounted Tomb King a squad of Chariots is a must (and they might be anyway), as is one squad of 15 Horse.
Anyway there is a wide range to collect, with an emphasis on boniness.
Wednesday, September 17, 2008
The Blue Dragons
I play 40k. I have a Space Marine army. Those two statements are equivalent, are they not?
I like the Salamanders fluff, even if I have never been big on the rules for them. Tanacious, with a slant towards Techmarines and a preference for close ranged fighting they are interesting to me. They also generally stay away from Lascannons and I have never known them to be big on Plasma weapons, either. Some nice themes that can make for an interesting army.
Salamanders eschew fast attack, but I think I will use The White Scars Khan as my main HQ, and generally rely on mobile elements. I want a Terminator Assault squad, and an Honour Guard as well. I get 10 terminators w/ the starter sets and two boxes of Assault terminators gives me weapons for 20 Assault Terminators and 10 Terminators. I can start with just one :). I also have various bits including I believe three Terminator chassis and a Cyclone. I can scam another Cyclone off my brother.
Here is the general gist of things.
Chaplain in Terminator Armour
5x Assault Terminators
Land Raider Redeemer
Captain w/ Honour Guard and a Drop Pod
10 Terminators (which can Combat Squad)
Two Dreadnoughts
Drop pods?
Tactical Squads w/ Flamer and Missile Launcher (they can use the Bolters effectively)
Tactical Squads w/ Meltaguns
Scouts?
Bikes, if I want to buy them. Which I probably won't. Including the Khan.
Ditto Land Speeders. I am not real big on Scout Bikes but I like the Land Speeder Storm, especially with the Khan. But not as much as I like Drop Pods :).
After that, I like a Triple Las Predator in cover w/ a Techmarine beside it, especially if they can fix it. I like the same with a Land Raider, with the Techmarine in front of it, possibly using it as a Transport. If I am taking Techmarines I would want something to use the +1 cover save, and that could quite possibly mean a 6 man squad of Scouts.
All in all, a nice army I can paint in a cool electric blue type paint scheme. If I find a money tree I can add 20 or so bikes and some Drop Pods.
Besides, I hate the colour green for whatever reason. :).
I like the Salamanders fluff, even if I have never been big on the rules for them. Tanacious, with a slant towards Techmarines and a preference for close ranged fighting they are interesting to me. They also generally stay away from Lascannons and I have never known them to be big on Plasma weapons, either. Some nice themes that can make for an interesting army.
Salamanders eschew fast attack, but I think I will use The White Scars Khan as my main HQ, and generally rely on mobile elements. I want a Terminator Assault squad, and an Honour Guard as well. I get 10 terminators w/ the starter sets and two boxes of Assault terminators gives me weapons for 20 Assault Terminators and 10 Terminators. I can start with just one :). I also have various bits including I believe three Terminator chassis and a Cyclone. I can scam another Cyclone off my brother.
Here is the general gist of things.
Chaplain in Terminator Armour
5x Assault Terminators
Land Raider Redeemer
Captain w/ Honour Guard and a Drop Pod
10 Terminators (which can Combat Squad)
Two Dreadnoughts
Drop pods?
Tactical Squads w/ Flamer and Missile Launcher (they can use the Bolters effectively)
Tactical Squads w/ Meltaguns
Scouts?
Bikes, if I want to buy them. Which I probably won't. Including the Khan.
Ditto Land Speeders. I am not real big on Scout Bikes but I like the Land Speeder Storm, especially with the Khan. But not as much as I like Drop Pods :).
After that, I like a Triple Las Predator in cover w/ a Techmarine beside it, especially if they can fix it. I like the same with a Land Raider, with the Techmarine in front of it, possibly using it as a Transport. If I am taking Techmarines I would want something to use the +1 cover save, and that could quite possibly mean a 6 man squad of Scouts.
All in all, a nice army I can paint in a cool electric blue type paint scheme. If I find a money tree I can add 20 or so bikes and some Drop Pods.
Besides, I hate the colour green for whatever reason. :).
Tuesday, September 16, 2008
One last one: The Orkses! or Two Armies for the Price of ... Won?
Somehow I decided it would be cool to start an Ork army. Creative juices are flowing these days for whatever reason, and it is not because I don't want to learn Web Services.
Here is a pretty cool Ork list I have come up with. I am starting with two of the new Macragge sets, Battle for the Dark Reaches or whatever it is called. From the two sets I get enough marines to fill out a marine army nicely (I call them The Blue Dragons, a Salamanders successor with a martial undertone) and the core of a nice Ork army. It also gives me maybe ... 75? models to practice painting on. Just like being a kid again!
Here is the core.
Big Mek
Burna, Kustom Force Field, 'Eavy Armour, Bosspole, 2x Grot Oilers
-> The other HQ options don't really interest me. Orks have enough interesting units you don't need to spend your points on HQ. I toyed with Weirdboyz but I decided on two Battlewagons. Maybe ... down ... the ... road. If like, I played more than once or twice a year and didn't have 10 other armies.
1x 10x Lootas, "Da Gun Boyz"
They hold the home base and provide some nice shooting. Everything else is assaulting, including vehicles. Defensively, I consider them to be an extra vehicle as far as target priority is concerned.
1x 10x Meganobz
They have TL Shootas stock, there is no need to replace that with Kombi Weapons I don't think, not when combined with the Waaagh! move. The Skorcha one is tempting. The Mek goes with these guys w/ the Kustom Force Field.
1x 6x (10x) Nobz
Stikkbombs, Big Choppas, 'Eavy Armour and a Waaagh! Banner. Nice elite squad for the Mek to join if I don't want the 400 points of Meganobz. 200 points. They get a trukk, too. Nice effective counter-charge, cheaper than the same thing on bikes.
Da Trukk
Grot Rigger, Red Paint Job. The other option is a Wrecking Ball w/ or w/o a Rokkit Launcha. Nice for that AV10 rear armour hit. Maybe Armour Plates.
1x 20x Slugga Boyz, "Da Boyz"
Stikkbombs, Nob w/ Power Klaw, Bosspole and 'Eavy Armour
These guys are an option for the main Battle Wagon, they can also march w/ a Warphead.
2x 30x Shoota Boyz, "Da Udder Boyz"
3x Big Shootas
Deff Dread, "Da Big Tako"
2x CCW, 2x Skorcha, Armour Plates, Grot Rigger
Runs beside the main Battlewagon until the Skorchas are in range.
1x 3x Killer Kans, "Da Kans"
3x Grotzooka, 3x Grot Rigger
Walks beside the main Battlewagon laying down covering fire. 6 3" templates gives a nice 9" diameter footprint.
1x 3x Killer Kans, "Da Eye Kandy"
3x Kustom Mega Blasta, 3x Grot Rigger
Gives 3 BS3 AP2 shots, and they will probably fire twice. Not bad. Handy anti-TMC shooting. I would say it is worth it. 3x Rokkit Launchas for 165 points or 3x AP2 Rokkit Launchas for 180 points. Nice upgrade. The other option is more Grotzookas but I think that is dull. 45 points more than Big Shootas, but they are better against 2+ anyway.
Battlewagon
2x Big Shoota, Reinforced Ram, Stikkbomb Chuka
Armour Plates, Grot Rigger, Red Paint Job, Grabbin' Klaw, Wreckin' Ball, Boarding Plank
This first Battlewagon is either a Transport for the Meganobz, or a Heavy Support selection used as a ride for Da Boyz. It could also be a Transport for the Nobz squad I suppose but I want something in it that can really wreck something. I keep the Stikkbomb Chuka on it just because, even if noone is ever really going to use it. I can always take it off if I am a point or two over.
The Reinforced Ram, Grabbin' Klaw, Wreckin' Ball and Boarding Plank come to 25 points. You can't get a TL Rokkit Launcha Warbuggie for that price. Definately worth it. The Big Shootas are there for Weapon Destroyed results on the damage table.
Battlewagon
Killkannon, 2x Big Shoota, Deff Rolla
Grot Rigger, Red Paint Job, Grabbin' Klaw, Wreckin' Ball
The second Battlewagon, the shooty one only holds 12 guys. Nice for the late game. It does not have the Stikkbomb launcha, just because. It can move 7" w/ the Red Paint Job and fire the Kannon. If it loses it, it can drive 13" with the Deff Rolla. l33tness. Grabbin' Klaw and Wreckin' Ball are another 15 points.
All in all this probably comes to about 2250 points or so.
Other Units
I don't want a Warboss, so those options are out. A SAG is not completely out of the question, especially in Apocalypse. I like the Mad Dok well enough. The other question is Mek's tools, I don't know how effective they are on their own, which leads to possibilities such as Megaarmour or a Bike. But being what I would consider a more tactical player I like the Kustom Force Field anyway.
I like Tankbustas well enough and would not be surprised if I painted up a box at some point. I like various flavors of Nobz well enough, including shooting options. I think the bikes are too expensive. I like Snikkrot but 6+ armour seems ineffective to me. I am not big on Burna boys since they lost the Armour Piercing on their Burnas, and they are still only I3 6+ on the charge with no Stikkbombs. Like Lootas you can replace three Burnas with Meks w/ Kustom Mega Blastas which could be nice.
I don't like Gretchin. I like them as accessory pieces, including a broken Zzap gun on the main Battlewagon (BS2? They can fix it later.) I like 'Ard Boyz OK but I don't feel like modelling them.
I liked Warbikers when they were Fearless. Which they no longer are. I like TL Rokkit Warbuggies w/ various upgrades. They fit the list better than Deffkoptas I think, although you can't go wrong with one or two Deffkoptas, either. I like Stormboyz w/ Boss Zagstruk OK.
I like Looted Wagons with Boomguns OK. If I was going Apocalypse I would not mind modelling two or three. Or 10. I like the Gun Batteries but am not going for them. I really like Flash Gitz but hate the fact they take a Heavy selection. If I was running a third Battlewagon and losing The Kans or The Eye Kandy I could see myself taking them.
Regarding Shooting Weapons and Upgrades
I have a nice selection of units to include, but the question 'that haunts my being' is what shooting weapons to take. The Dred used to carry TL weapons but it lost them so I am going with Skorchas. It still gets 5 attacks on the charge, or 6 w/ only one Skorcha. It is a Carnifex with a Heavy Flamer. Win.
The bitch is the anti-tank. The Meganobz are S9 on the charge, and the Nobz are S7. The Wrecking Balls are S9. Kans can take BS3 Rokkits and Kustom Mega Blastas. You can also get 4 Buggies w/ TL Rokkits for the same price. That take a Fast selection. Nothing wrong there.
The Slugga boyz can take Heavy weapons but I don't know if it is really worth it. With a 6+ save they will die anyway. They are transported first turn, soon after they Waaagh!. Better to spend the points elsewhere than to give them 20 points of Rokkit Launchas they will not use. A Wrecking Ball on Da Trukk, for instance.
I like Big Shootas with the Shoota Boyz, just because. Mostly because they are only 5 points. Rokkit Launchas are comparative to 4+ and better against 3+ but they are more expensive, too. Besides Big Shootas are cool.
Here is a pretty cool Ork list I have come up with. I am starting with two of the new Macragge sets, Battle for the Dark Reaches or whatever it is called. From the two sets I get enough marines to fill out a marine army nicely (I call them The Blue Dragons, a Salamanders successor with a martial undertone) and the core of a nice Ork army. It also gives me maybe ... 75? models to practice painting on. Just like being a kid again!
Here is the core.
Big Mek
Burna, Kustom Force Field, 'Eavy Armour, Bosspole, 2x Grot Oilers
-> The other HQ options don't really interest me. Orks have enough interesting units you don't need to spend your points on HQ. I toyed with Weirdboyz but I decided on two Battlewagons. Maybe ... down ... the ... road. If like, I played more than once or twice a year and didn't have 10 other armies.
1x 10x Lootas, "Da Gun Boyz"
They hold the home base and provide some nice shooting. Everything else is assaulting, including vehicles. Defensively, I consider them to be an extra vehicle as far as target priority is concerned.
1x 10x Meganobz
They have TL Shootas stock, there is no need to replace that with Kombi Weapons I don't think, not when combined with the Waaagh! move. The Skorcha one is tempting. The Mek goes with these guys w/ the Kustom Force Field.
1x 6x (10x) Nobz
Stikkbombs, Big Choppas, 'Eavy Armour and a Waaagh! Banner. Nice elite squad for the Mek to join if I don't want the 400 points of Meganobz. 200 points. They get a trukk, too. Nice effective counter-charge, cheaper than the same thing on bikes.
Da Trukk
Grot Rigger, Red Paint Job. The other option is a Wrecking Ball w/ or w/o a Rokkit Launcha. Nice for that AV10 rear armour hit. Maybe Armour Plates.
1x 20x Slugga Boyz, "Da Boyz"
Stikkbombs, Nob w/ Power Klaw, Bosspole and 'Eavy Armour
These guys are an option for the main Battle Wagon, they can also march w/ a Warphead.
2x 30x Shoota Boyz, "Da Udder Boyz"
3x Big Shootas
Deff Dread, "Da Big Tako"
2x CCW, 2x Skorcha, Armour Plates, Grot Rigger
Runs beside the main Battlewagon until the Skorchas are in range.
1x 3x Killer Kans, "Da Kans"
3x Grotzooka, 3x Grot Rigger
Walks beside the main Battlewagon laying down covering fire. 6 3" templates gives a nice 9" diameter footprint.
1x 3x Killer Kans, "Da Eye Kandy"
3x Kustom Mega Blasta, 3x Grot Rigger
Gives 3 BS3 AP2 shots, and they will probably fire twice. Not bad. Handy anti-TMC shooting. I would say it is worth it. 3x Rokkit Launchas for 165 points or 3x AP2 Rokkit Launchas for 180 points. Nice upgrade. The other option is more Grotzookas but I think that is dull. 45 points more than Big Shootas, but they are better against 2+ anyway.
Battlewagon
2x Big Shoota, Reinforced Ram, Stikkbomb Chuka
Armour Plates, Grot Rigger, Red Paint Job, Grabbin' Klaw, Wreckin' Ball, Boarding Plank
This first Battlewagon is either a Transport for the Meganobz, or a Heavy Support selection used as a ride for Da Boyz. It could also be a Transport for the Nobz squad I suppose but I want something in it that can really wreck something. I keep the Stikkbomb Chuka on it just because, even if noone is ever really going to use it. I can always take it off if I am a point or two over.
The Reinforced Ram, Grabbin' Klaw, Wreckin' Ball and Boarding Plank come to 25 points. You can't get a TL Rokkit Launcha Warbuggie for that price. Definately worth it. The Big Shootas are there for Weapon Destroyed results on the damage table.
Battlewagon
Killkannon, 2x Big Shoota, Deff Rolla
Grot Rigger, Red Paint Job, Grabbin' Klaw, Wreckin' Ball
The second Battlewagon, the shooty one only holds 12 guys. Nice for the late game. It does not have the Stikkbomb launcha, just because. It can move 7" w/ the Red Paint Job and fire the Kannon. If it loses it, it can drive 13" with the Deff Rolla. l33tness. Grabbin' Klaw and Wreckin' Ball are another 15 points.
All in all this probably comes to about 2250 points or so.
Other Units
I don't want a Warboss, so those options are out. A SAG is not completely out of the question, especially in Apocalypse. I like the Mad Dok well enough. The other question is Mek's tools, I don't know how effective they are on their own, which leads to possibilities such as Megaarmour or a Bike. But being what I would consider a more tactical player I like the Kustom Force Field anyway.
I like Tankbustas well enough and would not be surprised if I painted up a box at some point. I like various flavors of Nobz well enough, including shooting options. I think the bikes are too expensive. I like Snikkrot but 6+ armour seems ineffective to me. I am not big on Burna boys since they lost the Armour Piercing on their Burnas, and they are still only I3 6+ on the charge with no Stikkbombs. Like Lootas you can replace three Burnas with Meks w/ Kustom Mega Blastas which could be nice.
I don't like Gretchin. I like them as accessory pieces, including a broken Zzap gun on the main Battlewagon (BS2? They can fix it later.) I like 'Ard Boyz OK but I don't feel like modelling them.
I liked Warbikers when they were Fearless. Which they no longer are. I like TL Rokkit Warbuggies w/ various upgrades. They fit the list better than Deffkoptas I think, although you can't go wrong with one or two Deffkoptas, either. I like Stormboyz w/ Boss Zagstruk OK.
I like Looted Wagons with Boomguns OK. If I was going Apocalypse I would not mind modelling two or three. Or 10. I like the Gun Batteries but am not going for them. I really like Flash Gitz but hate the fact they take a Heavy selection. If I was running a third Battlewagon and losing The Kans or The Eye Kandy I could see myself taking them.
Regarding Shooting Weapons and Upgrades
I have a nice selection of units to include, but the question 'that haunts my being' is what shooting weapons to take. The Dred used to carry TL weapons but it lost them so I am going with Skorchas. It still gets 5 attacks on the charge, or 6 w/ only one Skorcha. It is a Carnifex with a Heavy Flamer. Win.
The bitch is the anti-tank. The Meganobz are S9 on the charge, and the Nobz are S7. The Wrecking Balls are S9. Kans can take BS3 Rokkits and Kustom Mega Blastas. You can also get 4 Buggies w/ TL Rokkits for the same price. That take a Fast selection. Nothing wrong there.
The Slugga boyz can take Heavy weapons but I don't know if it is really worth it. With a 6+ save they will die anyway. They are transported first turn, soon after they Waaagh!. Better to spend the points elsewhere than to give them 20 points of Rokkit Launchas they will not use. A Wrecking Ball on Da Trukk, for instance.
I like Big Shootas with the Shoota Boyz, just because. Mostly because they are only 5 points. Rokkit Launchas are comparative to 4+ and better against 3+ but they are more expensive, too. Besides Big Shootas are cool.
Tuesday, September 09, 2008
Eldar List Design: Asurmen's Host or What to do, what to do
I am looking forward to my new website, so here is one last post on here before I get the new one running. That, and the guys at dakka don't (do not) (donot?) need to listen to it.
I call it Asurmen's Host. It breathes some life into my existing Eldar army before moving onto my massive Khorne Lord of all time army.
Asurmen
1x 10x Dire Avengers
Powerweapon and Shimmershield, Bladestorm, Defend
Farseer
Fortune, Doom, Runes of Warding, Spirit Stones
1x 10x Howling Banshees
Mirrorswords, Acrobatic
Wave Serpent
TL Shuriken Cannons
1x 10x Dire Avengers
2x Shuriken Catapults, Bladestorm, Defend
Wave Serpent
TL Shuriken Cannons
2x 10x Guardian Defenders
Brightlance
2x 2x Warwalkers
2x Eldar Missile Launchers
// 1606
I am pretty happy about this. I need to buy Banshees again (Although I can use Scorpions instead) and it gives me a good reason to pick up Warwalkers. It is also an effective list without the use of an Avatar. Whereas my normal list is fought at 0" to 18" (relying heavily on Guardians and close combat), this one gets good use of the longer ranged Shuriken Catapults on the Dire Avengers. Banshees are a great fit because they have Counter Charge and they stack with Doom.
The only real reason I sold my Banshees was because painting all the different Aspects was intimidating with other projects. Such as, for example redefining the laws of physics and collecting 10,000+ points of Khorne.
Thing is I do not know what to add to take it to 1850. There is 244 points left, and I can even lose Defend on the second Dire Avengers. Alternatively I can add Vectored Engines or change the weapons on the Wave Serpents. For instance, Bright Lances on the Wave Serpents and Scatter Lasers in the Guardians.
First thing I am not interested in more Guardians or Dire Avengers. Just because. Second thing I am not interested in adding Scorpions or Swooping Hawks, although I will swap the Scorpions out for the Banshees. Swooping Hawks in 2000 maybe.
Second thing I am fine with adding Pathfinders. Pathfinders are cool and they go good with Doom. I am fine with units of Warlocks but find it both odd and generally ineffective when not stacked with Fortune.
I am not real interested in using Eldrad or Dark Reapers. I do not like Harlequins much under the new Consolidation rule.
I have a 14 man Storm Squad, I could use them alongside a Wraithlord which could be interesting. I could even lose one of the Guardian Defender squads.
I could buy Jetbikes, which I do not have and do not really like the models for. I have D-Cannons which I do not want in, nor any other Grav-tanks. I would not mind a third Wave Serpent but I do not have the model nor is it real exciting to me.
So ... what to do. Are people reading this? Here is the new list. Also, I have two Vypers and a bunch of Wraithguard.
Asurmen
1x 10x Dire Avengers
Powerweapon and Shimmershield, Bladestorm, Defend
Farseer
Fortune, Doom, Runes of Warding, Spirit Stones
1x 10x Howling Banshees
Mirrorswords, Acrobatic
Wave Serpent
TL Shuriken Cannons, Vectored Engines
1x 10x Dire Avengers
2x Shuriken Catapults, Bladestorm, Defend
Wave Serpent
TL Shuriken Cannons, Vectored Engines
1x 14x Guardian Storm (including Warlock)
Flamers or Fusion Guns, Spirit Seer, Enhance
2x 10x Guardian Defenders
Brightlance
1x Wraithlord
Wraithsword
2x 2x Warwalkers
2x Eldar Missile Launchers
// 2058
200 points over in 1850. I like the Wraithlord with the Wraithsword, just because. It is cheap and it still has the two flamers on it. I have never really liked Guardian Storm squads much, but they are more useful with the new rules for close combat. For 200 points I can have a Scorpion Squad infiltrating, or for 250 points I can have a 14 man squad of Storm Guardians and a Wraithlord. Not bad, really. The other option is just to stick with Guardian Defenders. The 100 point Wraithlord with the bad-ass Flamers on it takes advantage of the new Run rule. Heck, maybe I can buy one of those fancy plastic Wraithlords, too.
Asurmen
1x 10x Dire Avengers
Powerweapon and Shimmershield, Bladestorm, Defend
Farseer
Fortune, Doom, Runes of Warding, Spirit Stones
1x 10x Howling Banshees
Mirrorswords, Acrobatic
Wave Serpent
TL Shuriken Cannons, Vectored Engines
1x 10x Dire Avengers
2x Shuriken Catapults, Bladestorm, Defend
Wave Serpent
TL Shuriken Cannons, Vectored Engines
1x 14x Guardian Defenders (including Warlock)
Scatter Laser, Spirit Seer, Conceal
1x Wraithlord
Wraithsword
2x 2x Warwalkers
2x Eldar Missile Launchers
// 1691
Still 160 points short. I like the Wraithlord but what I am really missing is a bit of extra anti-tank. Marching Wraithguard can work. So can Swooping Hawks. I just don't know. Scorpions in a pinch if they still had their Haywire Grenades and S9 Powerfist. Which they do not.
What I did with the list on dakka was add Pathfinders (to stack with Doom) and a Spearlock Jetbike squad. 3 bikes, a Singing Spear and Destructor. Gives the list some anti-cover and anti-tank. A real unsung hero/ fill in the cracks kind of unit. Thing is I am not big on J-S-J and I think I prefer the Wraithlord.
I just don't know what to do. I will probably go like this.
Asurmen
1x 10x Dire Avengers
Powerweapon and Shimmershield, Bladestorm, Defend
Farseer
Fortune, Doom, Runes of Warding, Spirit Stones
1x 10x Howling Banshees
Mirrorswords, Acrobatic
Wave Serpent
TL Shuriken Cannons, Vectored Engines
1x 10x Dire Avengers
2x Shuriken Catapults, Bladestorm, Defend
Wave Serpent
TL Shuriken Cannons, Vectored Engines
1x 14x Guardian Defenders (including Warlock)
Brightlance, Spirit Seer, Conceal
1x Wraithlord
Wraithsword
2x 2x Warwalkers
2x Eldar Missile Launchers
// 1706
Just room enough to fit the Swooping Hawks if I lose the Vectored Engines and generally play with the Wargear. Good enough, and three strong Troop. I also like the mix of T3 4+ and mechanized elements. I like Wraithguard but they lack close combat punch. They would be good if Spirit Seers could take both Conceal and Enhance, or even if they were WS5 stock. But oh well. It gives me a chance to play with the Brightlance in the Guardian Squad, rather than a Scatterlaser. I think I would be OK with the eight, that is right, EIGHT Eldar Missile Launchers.
But what do I know. ;). I have to admit I am excited about playing Eldar again, and this is a good list to give the rules 'a go'.
I call it Asurmen's Host. It breathes some life into my existing Eldar army before moving onto my massive Khorne Lord of all time army.
Asurmen
1x 10x Dire Avengers
Powerweapon and Shimmershield, Bladestorm, Defend
Farseer
Fortune, Doom, Runes of Warding, Spirit Stones
1x 10x Howling Banshees
Mirrorswords, Acrobatic
Wave Serpent
TL Shuriken Cannons
1x 10x Dire Avengers
2x Shuriken Catapults, Bladestorm, Defend
Wave Serpent
TL Shuriken Cannons
2x 10x Guardian Defenders
Brightlance
2x 2x Warwalkers
2x Eldar Missile Launchers
// 1606
I am pretty happy about this. I need to buy Banshees again (Although I can use Scorpions instead) and it gives me a good reason to pick up Warwalkers. It is also an effective list without the use of an Avatar. Whereas my normal list is fought at 0" to 18" (relying heavily on Guardians and close combat), this one gets good use of the longer ranged Shuriken Catapults on the Dire Avengers. Banshees are a great fit because they have Counter Charge and they stack with Doom.
The only real reason I sold my Banshees was because painting all the different Aspects was intimidating with other projects. Such as, for example redefining the laws of physics and collecting 10,000+ points of Khorne.
Thing is I do not know what to add to take it to 1850. There is 244 points left, and I can even lose Defend on the second Dire Avengers. Alternatively I can add Vectored Engines or change the weapons on the Wave Serpents. For instance, Bright Lances on the Wave Serpents and Scatter Lasers in the Guardians.
First thing I am not interested in more Guardians or Dire Avengers. Just because. Second thing I am not interested in adding Scorpions or Swooping Hawks, although I will swap the Scorpions out for the Banshees. Swooping Hawks in 2000 maybe.
Second thing I am fine with adding Pathfinders. Pathfinders are cool and they go good with Doom. I am fine with units of Warlocks but find it both odd and generally ineffective when not stacked with Fortune.
I am not real interested in using Eldrad or Dark Reapers. I do not like Harlequins much under the new Consolidation rule.
I have a 14 man Storm Squad, I could use them alongside a Wraithlord which could be interesting. I could even lose one of the Guardian Defender squads.
I could buy Jetbikes, which I do not have and do not really like the models for. I have D-Cannons which I do not want in, nor any other Grav-tanks. I would not mind a third Wave Serpent but I do not have the model nor is it real exciting to me.
So ... what to do. Are people reading this? Here is the new list. Also, I have two Vypers and a bunch of Wraithguard.
Asurmen
1x 10x Dire Avengers
Powerweapon and Shimmershield, Bladestorm, Defend
Farseer
Fortune, Doom, Runes of Warding, Spirit Stones
1x 10x Howling Banshees
Mirrorswords, Acrobatic
Wave Serpent
TL Shuriken Cannons, Vectored Engines
1x 10x Dire Avengers
2x Shuriken Catapults, Bladestorm, Defend
Wave Serpent
TL Shuriken Cannons, Vectored Engines
1x 14x Guardian Storm (including Warlock)
Flamers or Fusion Guns, Spirit Seer, Enhance
2x 10x Guardian Defenders
Brightlance
1x Wraithlord
Wraithsword
2x 2x Warwalkers
2x Eldar Missile Launchers
// 2058
200 points over in 1850. I like the Wraithlord with the Wraithsword, just because. It is cheap and it still has the two flamers on it. I have never really liked Guardian Storm squads much, but they are more useful with the new rules for close combat. For 200 points I can have a Scorpion Squad infiltrating, or for 250 points I can have a 14 man squad of Storm Guardians and a Wraithlord. Not bad, really. The other option is just to stick with Guardian Defenders. The 100 point Wraithlord with the bad-ass Flamers on it takes advantage of the new Run rule. Heck, maybe I can buy one of those fancy plastic Wraithlords, too.
Asurmen
1x 10x Dire Avengers
Powerweapon and Shimmershield, Bladestorm, Defend
Farseer
Fortune, Doom, Runes of Warding, Spirit Stones
1x 10x Howling Banshees
Mirrorswords, Acrobatic
Wave Serpent
TL Shuriken Cannons, Vectored Engines
1x 10x Dire Avengers
2x Shuriken Catapults, Bladestorm, Defend
Wave Serpent
TL Shuriken Cannons, Vectored Engines
1x 14x Guardian Defenders (including Warlock)
Scatter Laser, Spirit Seer, Conceal
1x Wraithlord
Wraithsword
2x 2x Warwalkers
2x Eldar Missile Launchers
// 1691
Still 160 points short. I like the Wraithlord but what I am really missing is a bit of extra anti-tank. Marching Wraithguard can work. So can Swooping Hawks. I just don't know. Scorpions in a pinch if they still had their Haywire Grenades and S9 Powerfist. Which they do not.
What I did with the list on dakka was add Pathfinders (to stack with Doom) and a Spearlock Jetbike squad. 3 bikes, a Singing Spear and Destructor. Gives the list some anti-cover and anti-tank. A real unsung hero/ fill in the cracks kind of unit. Thing is I am not big on J-S-J and I think I prefer the Wraithlord.
I just don't know what to do. I will probably go like this.
Asurmen
1x 10x Dire Avengers
Powerweapon and Shimmershield, Bladestorm, Defend
Farseer
Fortune, Doom, Runes of Warding, Spirit Stones
1x 10x Howling Banshees
Mirrorswords, Acrobatic
Wave Serpent
TL Shuriken Cannons, Vectored Engines
1x 10x Dire Avengers
2x Shuriken Catapults, Bladestorm, Defend
Wave Serpent
TL Shuriken Cannons, Vectored Engines
1x 14x Guardian Defenders (including Warlock)
Brightlance, Spirit Seer, Conceal
1x Wraithlord
Wraithsword
2x 2x Warwalkers
2x Eldar Missile Launchers
// 1706
Just room enough to fit the Swooping Hawks if I lose the Vectored Engines and generally play with the Wargear. Good enough, and three strong Troop. I also like the mix of T3 4+ and mechanized elements. I like Wraithguard but they lack close combat punch. They would be good if Spirit Seers could take both Conceal and Enhance, or even if they were WS5 stock. But oh well. It gives me a chance to play with the Brightlance in the Guardian Squad, rather than a Scatterlaser. I think I would be OK with the eight, that is right, EIGHT Eldar Missile Launchers.
But what do I know. ;). I have to admit I am excited about playing Eldar again, and this is a good list to give the rules 'a go'.
Sunday, August 12, 2007
40k List Design: New Chaos
"Eldar fear the Heavy Bolter."
- Ancient Maxim
I've been looking through the new Chaos book, and here's my thoughts.
1) Heavy Bolters
There are none.
Imperials can take Heavy Bolters as follows
1) HQ: 2 in Command Squads
2) HQ and Elite: Inquisitors get them at 4+ save in their retinues, as well as Psycannons
3) Elite: Dreads
4) Elite: Termies get Assault Cannons
5) Elite: 5 man Veteran Squad, infiltrating, gets 1
6) Elite: Scout Squad, infiltrating, gets 1 + Sniper Rifles
7) Elite: Techmarines get them at 4+ save in their retinues
(so far every unit, altho the Command Squad is pushing it a little except in truly static forces)
8) Elite and Troop: Grey Knights get Psycannons
9) Troop: Combat Squads, 5 men can seperate with 1
10) Troop: Razorbacks (also applies to other units as well such as Techmarines or Devastators)
11) Fast Attack: Land Speeders, especially the Assault Cannon+Heavy Bolter combo
12) Fast Attack: Attack Bikes
13) Heavy Support: Devastator Squad
14) Heavy Support: Whirlwind is AP4
15) Heavy Support: Predator Sponsons and Baal
16) Heavy Support: Land Raider Crusader
17) Heavy Support/Transport: Land Raider has one on it
18) HQ Transport: The Land Raider Prometheus bears mention, I think it has something like 12 Heavy Bolters on it, as does one of the Warhound Variants.
That's alot of Heavy Bolters. This is what Chaos gets.
1) Chosen can take them, so ...
1) Elite: 5 man Chosen Squad, infiltrating, with 1 and also plasma gun/combi-bolters
2) Elite: Dreads
3) Elite: Termies can take Reaper Autocannon which is NOT a Heavy Bolter so
3) Troop: Chaos Space Marines can take 1 in a 10 man squad, which also doesn't count, so
3) Heavy Support: Havocs can take them, yay
4) Heavy Support: Obliterators can take them ... oh wait ... no that was the last codex ...
4) Heavy Support: Defilers can take them, but then they can't shoot their Battle Cannon/Fleet so ...
4) Heavy Support: Predator Sponsons
5) Heavy Support/Transport: Land Raider technically has one. Note that it can now only be a transport for 3-5 man squads of Terminators and nothing else.
So in short, Imperials have access to 15+ readily available Heavy Bolters, many of which come in multiples or are Twin Linked. This access spans the organizational chart, including Troop choices. Chaos gets 5, if you count the one on the Land Raider, which is a pretty pricey anti-infantry platform. What's more, given their scarcity, if you really want to have them the only way to really include them is in Havoc squads, other than the occasional Dread.
So if you ever wonder what Imperials 'get' as opposed to their Chaos cousins, now you know. Heavy Bolters.
So what does Chaos get? Chaos gets one thing that Imperials don't, and that's Plasma. And lots of it. Who needs AP4 when you get AP2 and even AP3 in spades? Here's the anti-MEQ stuff
2) Plasmaguns et al
1) HQ/Thousand Sun: The old Heavy Bolter Doombolt from the Tzeentch demons has been replaced with a spell that is S4 AP3. Not bad. The Tzeentch Chicken Head Demon Weapon does the same.
2) Elite: Chosen. Chosen can take 5, count em, 5 infiltrating plasma guns, or they can back 4 plasma guns up with a heavy weapon of their choice, including Heavy Bolters. Think of it as the Renegade Scout Squad.
3) Elite: Dreads again. Plasma Cannon, or ML/PC coming in at a cool ~100 points.
4) Elite: Terminators. Chaos Terminators are cheap and the whole squad can take a combi-plasma or combi-melta for 5 points each. Perfect if you like to deep strike.
5) Troop: Chaos Space Marines and Plague Marines can both take two Plasma or two Melta guns in the ~150 to 175 point range. Not bad for a Troop choice. Imperials get their Combat Squads but Chaos can take 2x Special.
6) Troop: Thousand Suns now get AP3 bolters. Bolters. Their bolters are AP3. And correct me if I'm wrong but with Slow and Purposeful they can shoot them while moving. Nasty. The Force Weapon isn't as much of a rip as you might think considering CSM pay 45 points for a power weapon and 55 points for a power fist anyway.
7) Fast Attack: Bikes can take two Plasma or two Melta guns just like Imperials can. Boo Imperials.
8) Heavy Support: Havocs get a wide assortment of AP2/AP3 goodness.
9) Heavy Support: Obliterators get Plasma Cannons amongst others.
10) Heavy Support: Predator and Land Raider, just like the Imperials.
11) Heavy Support: It bears mention, Chaos gets the Vindicator, just like the Imperials do
12) Heavy Support: Defiler has a Battle Cannon, yay Battle Cannon
So what Chaos is lacking in big guns, Havoc squads aside (which can also take special weapons), they make up for with 18" effective Special Weapons or 24" effective stand and shoot. This is opposed to the evil Imperials with their cheese fest 36" and longer weaponry. Chaos is saved by their Heavy Support and the occasional Dread or Flying Chicken Head of Doom to force morale checks at longer ranges.
3) Close Combat
With all this close range fighting, Chaos also gets an abundance of close combat. There's no need to go on about it, but one unit that caught my eye was the Berzerkers. At only 21 points a model a 6 man squad comes to 126 points, where a 10 man CSM squad with special weapons and an icon comes to ~175 points. Berzerkers are useful "right out of the box" so to speak. You just have to get them there. Did I mention they also have Furious Charge?
6 Possessed with their 5++ are 156 points, but the Berzerkers have 3 attacks each at WS5 opposed to S5. And the Berzerkers are Troop. While they've lost their movement rules, Berzerkers are a very solid close combat unit to back up your wargear toting CSM squads and possibly other more specialized squads like Plague Marines or Noise Marines. I'm personally not going to bother with either, but to each their own. Berzerkers lack the 18" (or longer) effectiveness of the other squads but they're brutal in combat, which is what they're for. I do like Bikes, just because I like them, but also for Summoning/Teleporting, and Chaos Termies are a great close combat squad. Mine are going to be Slaaneshi with I5 and power weapons. Yay me. And no, I'm not leaving the combi weapons behind ;)
- Ancient Maxim
I've been looking through the new Chaos book, and here's my thoughts.
1) Heavy Bolters
There are none.
Imperials can take Heavy Bolters as follows
1) HQ: 2 in Command Squads
2) HQ and Elite: Inquisitors get them at 4+ save in their retinues, as well as Psycannons
3) Elite: Dreads
4) Elite: Termies get Assault Cannons
5) Elite: 5 man Veteran Squad, infiltrating, gets 1
6) Elite: Scout Squad, infiltrating, gets 1 + Sniper Rifles
7) Elite: Techmarines get them at 4+ save in their retinues
(so far every unit, altho the Command Squad is pushing it a little except in truly static forces)
8) Elite and Troop: Grey Knights get Psycannons
9) Troop: Combat Squads, 5 men can seperate with 1
10) Troop: Razorbacks (also applies to other units as well such as Techmarines or Devastators)
11) Fast Attack: Land Speeders, especially the Assault Cannon+Heavy Bolter combo
12) Fast Attack: Attack Bikes
13) Heavy Support: Devastator Squad
14) Heavy Support: Whirlwind is AP4
15) Heavy Support: Predator Sponsons and Baal
16) Heavy Support: Land Raider Crusader
17) Heavy Support/Transport: Land Raider has one on it
18) HQ Transport: The Land Raider Prometheus bears mention, I think it has something like 12 Heavy Bolters on it, as does one of the Warhound Variants.
That's alot of Heavy Bolters. This is what Chaos gets.
1) Chosen can take them, so ...
1) Elite: 5 man Chosen Squad, infiltrating, with 1 and also plasma gun/combi-bolters
2) Elite: Dreads
3) Elite: Termies can take Reaper Autocannon which is NOT a Heavy Bolter so
3) Troop: Chaos Space Marines can take 1 in a 10 man squad, which also doesn't count, so
3) Heavy Support: Havocs can take them, yay
4) Heavy Support: Obliterators can take them ... oh wait ... no that was the last codex ...
4) Heavy Support: Defilers can take them, but then they can't shoot their Battle Cannon/Fleet so ...
4) Heavy Support: Predator Sponsons
5) Heavy Support/Transport: Land Raider technically has one. Note that it can now only be a transport for 3-5 man squads of Terminators and nothing else.
So in short, Imperials have access to 15+ readily available Heavy Bolters, many of which come in multiples or are Twin Linked. This access spans the organizational chart, including Troop choices. Chaos gets 5, if you count the one on the Land Raider, which is a pretty pricey anti-infantry platform. What's more, given their scarcity, if you really want to have them the only way to really include them is in Havoc squads, other than the occasional Dread.
So if you ever wonder what Imperials 'get' as opposed to their Chaos cousins, now you know. Heavy Bolters.
So what does Chaos get? Chaos gets one thing that Imperials don't, and that's Plasma. And lots of it. Who needs AP4 when you get AP2 and even AP3 in spades? Here's the anti-MEQ stuff
2) Plasmaguns et al
1) HQ/Thousand Sun: The old Heavy Bolter Doombolt from the Tzeentch demons has been replaced with a spell that is S4 AP3. Not bad. The Tzeentch Chicken Head Demon Weapon does the same.
2) Elite: Chosen. Chosen can take 5, count em, 5 infiltrating plasma guns, or they can back 4 plasma guns up with a heavy weapon of their choice, including Heavy Bolters. Think of it as the Renegade Scout Squad.
3) Elite: Dreads again. Plasma Cannon, or ML/PC coming in at a cool ~100 points.
4) Elite: Terminators. Chaos Terminators are cheap and the whole squad can take a combi-plasma or combi-melta for 5 points each. Perfect if you like to deep strike.
5) Troop: Chaos Space Marines and Plague Marines can both take two Plasma or two Melta guns in the ~150 to 175 point range. Not bad for a Troop choice. Imperials get their Combat Squads but Chaos can take 2x Special.
6) Troop: Thousand Suns now get AP3 bolters. Bolters. Their bolters are AP3. And correct me if I'm wrong but with Slow and Purposeful they can shoot them while moving. Nasty. The Force Weapon isn't as much of a rip as you might think considering CSM pay 45 points for a power weapon and 55 points for a power fist anyway.
7) Fast Attack: Bikes can take two Plasma or two Melta guns just like Imperials can. Boo Imperials.
8) Heavy Support: Havocs get a wide assortment of AP2/AP3 goodness.
9) Heavy Support: Obliterators get Plasma Cannons amongst others.
10) Heavy Support: Predator and Land Raider, just like the Imperials.
11) Heavy Support: It bears mention, Chaos gets the Vindicator, just like the Imperials do
12) Heavy Support: Defiler has a Battle Cannon, yay Battle Cannon
So what Chaos is lacking in big guns, Havoc squads aside (which can also take special weapons), they make up for with 18" effective Special Weapons or 24" effective stand and shoot. This is opposed to the evil Imperials with their cheese fest 36" and longer weaponry. Chaos is saved by their Heavy Support and the occasional Dread or Flying Chicken Head of Doom to force morale checks at longer ranges.
3) Close Combat
With all this close range fighting, Chaos also gets an abundance of close combat. There's no need to go on about it, but one unit that caught my eye was the Berzerkers. At only 21 points a model a 6 man squad comes to 126 points, where a 10 man CSM squad with special weapons and an icon comes to ~175 points. Berzerkers are useful "right out of the box" so to speak. You just have to get them there. Did I mention they also have Furious Charge?
6 Possessed with their 5++ are 156 points, but the Berzerkers have 3 attacks each at WS5 opposed to S5. And the Berzerkers are Troop. While they've lost their movement rules, Berzerkers are a very solid close combat unit to back up your wargear toting CSM squads and possibly other more specialized squads like Plague Marines or Noise Marines. I'm personally not going to bother with either, but to each their own. Berzerkers lack the 18" (or longer) effectiveness of the other squads but they're brutal in combat, which is what they're for. I do like Bikes, just because I like them, but also for Summoning/Teleporting, and Chaos Termies are a great close combat squad. Mine are going to be Slaaneshi with I5 and power weapons. Yay me. And no, I'm not leaving the combi weapons behind ;)
Sunday, July 15, 2007
40k List: Iyanden III
"Their arrogance is matched only by their firepower."
I'm keeping all my Dark Reapers. What I have left comes in at a cool 4000 points. I don't think I would ever pick anything up again, other than Titans and a Mk II Scorpion. I don't like the chassis on the Cobra, I would pick up a Scorpion and then convert a second turret for it.
Avatar
Farseer w/ Runes of Warding, Spirit Stones, Doom, Fortune
Autarch w/ Power Weapon, Avenger Shuriken Catapult
Warlock Bodyguard (10 models)
Harlequin Troupe (10 models)
Striking Scorpions (10 models)
Dire Avengers (10 models)
3x Guardians (14 models)
Wraithguard (11 models)
Pathfinders (6 models)
Guardian Storm Squad (11 models)
Swooping Hawks (6 models)
2x Vyper
2x Wraithlord
2x Fire Prism
2x D-Cannon (2 guns)
2x Dark Reapers (5 models)
Nice army, 4000 might make for a good game of Apocolypse. The idea with the Reapers is that they are only pulled out when they need the really big guns.
I honestly don't know if it would be an effective army for Apocolypse. I think in Apocolypse you're going to see army lists changing because of all the guns on the board. Falcons will be even better because they can soak up so much firepower. There is only so much room on the table for manouvering infantry units, especially large ones so static long range supporting fire power becomes disproportionately more useful.
But then on the other hand, Apocolypse is really just about putting all your models on the table and having a good time. Why field 10 Leman Russ tanks when you can field 30? XD
I'm keeping all my Dark Reapers. What I have left comes in at a cool 4000 points. I don't think I would ever pick anything up again, other than Titans and a Mk II Scorpion. I don't like the chassis on the Cobra, I would pick up a Scorpion and then convert a second turret for it.
Avatar
Farseer w/ Runes of Warding, Spirit Stones, Doom, Fortune
Autarch w/ Power Weapon, Avenger Shuriken Catapult
Warlock Bodyguard (10 models)
Harlequin Troupe (10 models)
Striking Scorpions (10 models)
Dire Avengers (10 models)
3x Guardians (14 models)
Wraithguard (11 models)
Pathfinders (6 models)
Guardian Storm Squad (11 models)
Swooping Hawks (6 models)
2x Vyper
2x Wraithlord
2x Fire Prism
2x D-Cannon (2 guns)
2x Dark Reapers (5 models)
Nice army, 4000 might make for a good game of Apocolypse. The idea with the Reapers is that they are only pulled out when they need the really big guns.
I honestly don't know if it would be an effective army for Apocolypse. I think in Apocolypse you're going to see army lists changing because of all the guns on the board. Falcons will be even better because they can soak up so much firepower. There is only so much room on the table for manouvering infantry units, especially large ones so static long range supporting fire power becomes disproportionately more useful.
But then on the other hand, Apocolypse is really just about putting all your models on the table and having a good time. Why field 10 Leman Russ tanks when you can field 30? XD
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